BRAKES AND WHEELS PAGE TWO...


WELDABLE MASTER CYLINDER???
From: Ed Lloyd <edlloydaustin@juno.com>
Hi Jim,
I saw Bob's dilemma on Yahoo site. Do you know if the aluminum in the brake cylinder is weldable? If it is, I may be able to repair his old cylinder if all else fails. If the end can be heliarced back on, I feel I can rework the inside for him in my lathe. Would rather see him do that than change configuration. Cheers........Ed Lloyd

Ed:
To my memory, the master cylinders were steel, and, I think, brazed together. I went over to the airport this morning with magnet in hand, and yes, they are steel. It shouldn't be too hard to braze one back together if that's all thats wrong with it. -- Jim

STOCK GOODYEAR WHEELS AND BRAKES...  (12199)
CLIP JOINT...
Subj: Brakes
From: peetking@earthlink.net (Pete King)
Jim,
Much talk about brakes makes me curious. I currently fly both types of brakes and have never had trouble with them being inadequate in stopping. The only differences of note are two. The Goodyear model takes longer to service or change pucks -- thou you don't need a rivit tool -- which I don't own. As originally designed the Goodyear model only used four retaining clips for the brake disc. If, as too many of us know, even one clip was broken or otherwise lost, you were a disaster waiting to happen. If, however, eight clips were used instead of four -- the problem goes away. After having a wheel go to pieces several years ago, I added four button style clips to the original four that were held in by the peg cast into the wheel. Haven't even had one clip break in several hundred hours -- much less worry about losing another brake or having one lock up.  I would like to have some spare clips -- just in case -- insurance. Do you know who sells them?? Regards, Pete King

Pete,
No, I don't know who might have some spare clips. If you haven't priced them lately get ready for some sticker shock! Pat Moore has a complete set of Goodyear low flange wheels and brakes, including tires, for $200.00. This includes the clips. I think 8ea. of those clips cost more than that these days! -- Jim

CLEVELAND WHEELS AND BRAKES INSTALLATION...  (12399)
Subject: Re: N80572
From: Bill Doty <wdoty@seidata.com>
JIM,
I finally received the Cleveland wheels / Brakes for 80572..I beleive the current wheel/brakes are original GoodYear and presume still have what every brake fluid was used at that time. What fluid should I use after a good flush out of the old fluid ?? Any other comments on the installation ??? BILL

Bill,
The fluid should be mil 5606. You will find the bleeder screws as furnished will hit the ribs in the wheel well upon retraction. Substitute plain 1/8" Allan headed pipe plugs. You can get these at any hardware store in steel or brass, if you want aluminum you need to get them from an aircraft source. For bleeding, just crack them open slightly. It may be best to bleed from the bottom up with a pressure pot. To bleed the old fashioned way, remove the brake head from the axle, leaving the 1/4" hose intact, loosen clamps as necessary, hold the brake up as high as possible, above the wing centersection, and bleed, you can get extra air out of it this way.Use the break in procedure as given in the mfrs. instructions. Don't tighten the 1/8" pipe plugs extremely tight, the pipe thread can break the aluminum casting. Where did you get your brakes? Most suppliers have been out of the 199-48 kits. Pass your old Goodyear's on to someone who is trying to stay all original! Some parts for them are getting hard to find. (and expensive)! -- Jim

CLEVELAND WHEELS AND BRAKES INSTALLATION PART TWO...  (12399)
Subject: Re: GOODYEAR
From: Bill Doty <wdoty@seidata.com>
JIM,
Thanks for the quick reply. I got the (Cleveland) brakes thru Joe at Swift Parts. Took 2-3 months to get them. You can put out the news that I have the original parts available, to anyone that needs them. I have no idea what a fair price is for the used parts. How do you i.d. hi-flange vs lo-flange in case someone wants to know ? -- BILL

Bill,
I can tell by looking, but it's hard to explain, the low flange have a small puck (lining) about the size of a quarter and a fairly small disk, not having one here, I can't give you dimensions. The high flange have a puck over an inch in diameter and a bigger disk. Most '46's had high flange brakes. The '48 and later had low flange brakes. Local (MN) Swifter Pat Moore has a pretty good set of low flange Goodyear's, complete with decent tires, for $200. I would guess that N80572 had high flange Goodyear's, if they are in good shape, I would guess they might be worth about the same. I gave my old Goodyear's away for nothing to a guy who was doing authentic restoration. You might consider donating your Goodyear's to the Swift Museum. -- Jim

GEORGE'S BRAKE PROBLEMS RESOLVED...  (12499)
In recent updates Monty and others have dealt with George McClellan's brake woes which involved poor brake effectiveness with his Clevelands. Here is the final info from George on those problems...

From: George McClellan <WWIIPILOT@aol.com>
The brake problem was brake linings that in the past had been soaked in oil. I could sand them off and they would look good until I tried to reseat them. I would find an oil residue on the disk. It is nice to be able to do an engine runup. George

WEAK LINK IN THE BRAKE SYSTEM...
From Swifter GENE GILLOTT, BC, Canada. 7JAN97
Once, during a run up, I suddenly had the left brake pedal go "limp" with the tendency of the bird to make a sharp left turn on the apron. Could have been serious if it had occurred during a cross wind landing! The problem turned out to be the aluminum linkage between the left brake pedal and the master cylinder. These appear to be stamped out of sheet stock and there is not that much material around the bolt holes at either end. The holes elongate due to wear and probably never see any lubrication. In this case, the material was so thin that it finally let go when full brake pressure was applied with the resulting loss of braking action. I mentioned this to Charlie some years back but it doesn't hurt to bring it up again. A close inspection every few years would be not a bad idea.

EVIL GOO...
From Swifter DICK COLLINS, California. 15MAY97
Ran across a couple of things that should be of interest to Swifters and a lot of other GA types. The first problem was with Bill Gass’ Swift, and occurred after about three years of storage. The aircraft was inspected and returned to service. Bill was experiencing ground handling directional problems that eventually ended up in a non damaging groundloop. (Editor’s note: For those of you who don’t know Bill, if a Swift groundloops and he is at the controls, you can be damn sure it’s a mechanical problem...) To make a long story short the difficulty was determined to be in the brakes. When the brake line was disconnected at the wheel cylinder and brake pressure was applied, a gooey substance was excreted from the brake line, This was ongnally 5606 “red juice” that had congealed. Bill has a retractable, non steerable tail wheel that requires some braking for directional control. The congealed fluid caused a delay in the action of the brakes, and another delay in the removal of brake application. Not good situation.

I just started overhaul on all of my Swift hydraulics. Flap actuator looked good no leaks. All o-rings looked good, that is not squared of f, and still pliable. Fluid clean with slight film residue on the bottom of actuator end pieces. Removal of the brake lines at the wheel cylinders indicated the same problem that Bill had, but probably not quite as congealed. The 5606 brake fluid took about ten minutes for the first drop to come out. A couple of tablespoons of this “goo” slowly d;ipped out before normal fluid flow started. The line was 601 Aeroquip and is supplying fluid to Cleveland 30-798 brake assemblies, and had been installed for more than ten years without the need to bleed the system.

On Bill’s Swift the line was fabric covered, thought to be 303 Aeroquip, supplying Goodyear high flange brakes. We are unsure what brand 5606 was used in both aircraft as the original fluid, but it would he highly unlikely that it came from the same manufacturer and batch. I have noticed in the past that when the lid is removed from the one gallon can of 5606 a spider web thin sticky “string” is formed. This is also observed sometimes when the aircraft reservoir filler plugs are removed. The circulating fluid in the systems appeared good.

SUMMARY:

SUBJECT: Red hydraulic fluid Mil 5606

PROBLEM: Fluid solidifies/congeals when there is little or no circulation.

POSSIBLE CAUSE: Oxidation and/or chemical combination with hose liner or die-cast aluminum.

RECOMMENOATION: On any “dead end” hydraulic system the technician should consider bleeding the system every several years.
Dick Collins

NOT CHEAP DEPT: CLEVELAND BRAKES ON A SWIFT... (040200)
Subject: Cleveland brakes
From: Roy Cook <RCook63133@aol.com>
Hello Jim, It has been a while since I e-mailed u, Hope you are well. As you know, my little bird has Goodyear brakes. I would like to change them to Cleveland brakes. I found them for the Swift at Chief Aircraft. The price for brakes with chrome discs is $825. Do you know of somewhere I may be able to find them at a better price. The kit number is 199-48c. Thank You, Roy

Roy,
I don't think anyone sells them for less than Chief. I think the list price is over $1,000.00 When I bought my set for my present Swift I checked around and Chief had the cheapest price in the country. Actually, I feel that is still a pretty good deal. Having said that, for a GC-1A you must be aware that Cleveland wheels and brakes are heavier (8 pounds I think) than the Goodyears. I would hesitate to tell you NOT to install Clevelands, but try to keep the weight down on the poor little airplane. If it were my GC -1A, I would keep the Goodyears and maintain them very carefully. Yes, I did have Clevelands on my last GC-1A. -- Jim

GO GO GO WITH GOODYEAR... (040300)
Subject: Re: Goodyear Brakes
From: Roy Cook <RCook63133@aol.com>
Jim, I got your e-mail answer to my question about the conversion of the Goodyear brakes to Clevelands on my GC-1A and have decided to stay with the Goodyears. Now I have to ask where do I get part numbers and parts I need to overhaul them. I've looked in the manuals that I bought but I don't see anything in them that give the answers I need. I'm sorry if these are questions I should know the answer to, but I don't. Thanks again, Roy

Roy,
There are two versions of Goodyear wheels and brakes, the high flange and low flange. I presume you have the high flange. There might be some new parts out there, but you probably don't want to even know the prices. So many sets of Goodyear wheels and brakes have been removed that there have to be a lot of them available used. I would advertise and try to buy several sets of used Goodyears and use the best parts to build up a serviceable set. Be aware they were probably not removed in excellent condition! I know the set of Goodyears I removed from my Swift were worn out. Remember, the reason I suggested retaining the Goodyears in your case was the fact that they are lighter than the Clevelands and your GC-1A doesn't need extra empty weight. If you can't find some serviceable used parts, or if you don't have the ability to overhaul your own brakes, I suggest you go back to plan "A" and call Joe at Swift Parts and see if they can give you a good price on Clevelands. -- Jim


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