MONTY THE ANSWER
KEY START FOR AN
From: Lewis & Lily Fisher <LewF@webtv.net>
Can key start be installed on a Continental O-300A Swift engine?
Yes, using a B&C starter. It is made in Wichita, KS and advertised
in the magazines and Trade-A-Plane. I have one on my O-300A and love it.
I formerly had an O-300D with key start, this is about 10 pounds lighter,
plus the clutch design is much superior than either the A or D. Price
is about $800.00. -- Jim
O-300 ALTERNATOR CONVERSION...
From: Don Thomson <SwifterDon@compuserve.com>
The winter project will be an alternator conversion. I actually have an
0-300D...it's a 'D' case with an 'A' crank shaft....... The ones I see
in Wag Aero say they are STC'd for the 0-300, but don't specify which
Some O-300D's had an alternator as original equipment, so if you want
to save a few bucks, you can get one from early '60's 172 or even a 150
and use it. It is a Ford based unit. You also need a matching regulator
and to rewire to the C-172 diagram. Years ago, all the items necessary
could be bought from Cessna quite reasonably, I suppose Cessnas prices
are high enough now that the Wag Aero unit might be feasible.
C-145 STARTER AND ALTERNATOR
From: Marvin Homsley <email@example.com>
I actually have a question I know the Swift gurus can answer. Can my C-145
engine be converted to a push button starter. Second one, is there an
alternator conversion for the same engine. It seems like I have heard
of both of these somewhere. Marvin Homsley N80740
A C-145 can be fitted with a B&C starter. The price is about $800.
Look in TAP or the trade magazines. I have been asked if the O-300D push
button starter and vacuum pump can be adapted to a C-145. The short answer
is no, unless you use the O-300D main case, accessory case, some gears
and misc. small parts. In other words, you can't just bolt the O-300D
accessory case on to the C-145. The O-300D has an alternator, a complete
setup from a late '60's 172 can be installed, or there are some STC'ed
units in the WagAero and Aircraft Spruce catalogues. -- Jim
MR. CLUTCH... (030500)
From:Marvin Homsley <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Starter trouble
Sometimes the simple things may need repeated for the newer swift mechanic/owner
like myself. I have an 0300-A with the old type starter where you pull
the cable to engage it. My starter sometimes would not fully engage and
would slip. I could just imagine the gears grinding and I hated that.
I used to pull really hard on that starter cable trying to make it engage
without some slipping and grinding. Sometimes I would hurt my fingers
pulling so hard. I found the trouble and it is so simple and adjustment
I could not believe it. Just adjust the screw that actually pushes the
starter electric plunger. I adjusted it slightly shorter and the starter
engages perfect every time now. All that hard pulling was doing no good
at all. Now I only have about another million things to learn about my
Swift. Marvin Homsley N80740
I'm glad you got it adjusted OK. This adjustment is detailed in all the
Continental Overhaul Manuals from the C-85 to the C-125, C-145 and O-300.
When your starter clutch starts slipping, you might get a "Niagra" rebuilt
starter clutch. See their ad in Trade A Plane. Myself, I just popped for
a B&C starter, now all I have to do is push a button. -- Jim
B & C STARTER INSTALLATION...
Subject: Re: starter
Thanks for the reply about my slipping starter. I was thinking about a
B & C starter also. How much trouble is it to install ? Marvin Homsley
There is one problem, the existing steel pivot that the Continental clutch
rides on needs to be cut off. This is best done at overhaul. If done with
the engine "together" it is perhaps easiest to remove the whole engine,
then remove the accessory case and oil sump and carefully mask off every
opening to the core engine and use a cut off wheel in a high speed grinder.
Possibly it could be done with the engine on the airframe. As you can
imagine, there is a possibility of getting steel shavings into the engine.
The rest of the starter installation is a piece of cake! -- Jim
C125 STARTERS LEAK OIL...
Subject: Re: C125 Starter
From: Bob Runge email@example.com
Hi Jim; I always seem to have a drip of oil hanging from my starter
gear engaging shaft. This continuous drip of oil causes a cumulative mess
all along the bottom of my cowling and firewall when all the drips congregate
to make an oil leak. Is there a seal behind the starter housing that I
could replace to stop this or is this just another vintage advantage?
Best regards....... Bob Runge
The C-125 and C-145 had several seal arrangements on the starter clutch
shaft. The earliest version had no seal at all. The latest O-300A/B starter
had a Garlock seal about 1/4" deep and about a 3/4" ID and a 1 1/4" OD.
You would have to remove the 5 ea. 5/16" bolts, plus the cable and the
actuating cable to remove the starter and determine which style you have.
Back in the '30's and '40's a little oil leakage didn't get anybody too
excited apparently. Even with a new, good seal installed, an oil drip
will still fall from the starter clutch. -- Jim
LIGHTWEIGHT STARTER FOR
AN O-300-D... (060300)
Subj: Swift N2412B
From: Fred Lipscomb <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Hi Jim: Enjoyed meeting you at Swift National, and letting you see your
old airplane. We talked about putting a new light weight starter on my
0-300D. Do you have any recommendations as to which manufacturer to buy
from? Best: T. Fred Lipscomb
It was nice to meet you. There are 3 or 4 lightweight starters available
for the O-300D and they are all good as far as I know. Aircraft Supply
has one for $315. I'm not sure what mfg. that is. Aircraft Spruce has
Sky-Tec, ElectroSystems, B&C and Lamar. The starter for an O-300D
is brain dead simple to install and only requires a few minutes of time
and no modifications like the O-300A which requires the starter pivot
to be cut off. -- Jim
UPDATING "MODEL T" TECHNOLOGY...
Subj: Starter for a C-145
From: Larry Owen <T081763@sphn.com>
Sorry Monty, but you may have begun a long running discussion about starters....
I would dearly like to replace my cable pull C-145 starter with something
that was made after the Model T was built. I have been told that to replace
the C-145 starter, the starter bolt (pivot ?) needs to be cut, but I have
been unable to find someone who knows anything about this. Can you do
that on the plane or do you have to yank engine? Is this a major deal
or can I (with my AP's blessing ) get this done with the normal cut-off
tools and the like? Which starter has the most straight forward intall.
etc etc etc Thanks! Larry N78287
I have an O-300A (same starter as C-145) with a B&C starter. The starter
is best installed at overhaul. The B&C is the best starter for the
O-300A-B-C and C-145. TCM makes a lightweight starter also, but I believe
the price is out of sight. Yes, the pivot needs to be cut off. I have
not done this with the engine installed and assembled, but I believe it
might be possible. The accessory case etc. would have to be removed and
all the openings to the engine carefully masked off. It might be most
practical to remove the engine from the airplane. I cut my starter pivot
off with a high speed cut off wheel, but of course I had the engine completely
apart so I didn't have to worry about getting steel grindings in the engine.
Maybe some genius will devise a tool similar to a pipe cutter that will
cut the pivot off thru the starter opening. B&C would sell thousands
of starters! The B&C starter is STC'ed and other than the cutting
off of the pivot is straight forward and easy to install. -- Jim
STARTER SEAL... (090201)
From: Jim Coats <SwiftFlyr@aol.com>
Subject: Swift Starter Seal
The Delco-Remy starter used on the Swift is very similar in design to
the starter used on early 1950's General Motors cars. Obviously they are
different in appearance and mounting but they share the same "guts"
as the ones used on the cars. I went through a starter not too long ago
on a '49 Chevy Fleetline and noted that it was very similar in design
to the one on the Swift. (Hell, it's a starter, how complicated can it
be.) NAPA had all of the parts for the thing, including a rebuild kit,
catalogued by Delco Remy part number. That seal is a Garlock 63-270 I
believe, Jim's eyes haven't failed him yet. Most of those Garlock-type
seals have some kind of sizing or part (or both!) numbers on them somewhere.
If for some reason that search comes up short, let me know and I'll see
if I can dig one up around here somewhere.
Swift & Old Car Nut
Marion, NC (9A9) and B'Ham, AL (BHM)
ALTERNATOR ON O-300A...(030102)
Subj: Alternator install on 0300-A
I am wondering about the paperwork involved to replace a gen. with an
alternator. My A&P says I need an STC or a 337 for the airframe. What
does the guru say. Thanks, Tom Gulizia N2708W SN3741
The later O-300's had alternators as factory equipment. (mid-sixties 172's)
Yes, to install an alternator on an O-300A in a Swift you will need a
field approved 337 or an STC and a 337. You can use the 150/172 60 Amp.
alternator installation with all Cessna factory parts. I have done several
of these. The Cessna parts are now getting so expensive that the STCed
installations are now not too far out of line price wise. Aircraft Spruce
has an STCed 50 Amp. alternator for $724.00, it has been STCed on many
type aircraft but not on a Swift to my knowledge, so you would still need
a field approval. By scrounging, you might round up a used Cessna type
alternator for 200 or 300 bucks, then there is a Cessna installation kit
which includes a regulator and a switch and circuit breaker. I have some
337's here someplace which call out the part numbers. Last time I looked,
I had misfiled my 337 but the Swift Association has sold copies of my
first one for years. The 50 Amp. alternator may be more desirable than
the 60 Amp. It has a lesser power requirement to turn it and rarely will
an airplane like a Swift need that kind of amperage. -- Jim
Subj: O-300-D Starter Adapter (90 degree)
From: Steve Wilson <SteveWlson@aol.com>
Jim... What are symptoms of problems with the starter drive? Mine works
OK and shows no signs of failing; however, it seems very noisy. More noisy
recently than it used to. Should I be concerned? Is it likely to shed
parts into the accessory case? If needed, who do you recommend for overhaul.
I remember you sent one out a few years ago. Was it Bulldock? Thanks...
I had my O-300D starter drive overhauled at Bolduc. If you saw the way
TCM designed that drive, you would never think it would work at all. Usually,
they just start slipping real bad and they need an undersized spring installed
which wraps up on kind of a knurled shaft to engage the starter to the
engine. Remember Mobil 1 Aviation Oil? It was so slippery that all the
TCM starter drives started slipping. Aeroshell 15/50 has been known to
do that too. There is a minimum dimension on that shaft and if it's below
that you have to turn it down to clean it up and get a more undersized
spring - eventually you have to get a new shaft. $$$$$$ As far as noise
goes - engine oil pressure does lubricate the starter drive, but there
is just one little oil passage, so maybe you could pull the starter (5
minute job on an O-300D) and pack the bearing and what gears you can get
at with Lubriplate or some other oil soluble grease to quiet things down.
I think I remember doing that in years gone by. You only need to do that
about once a year. -- Jim
OFF TO A GOOD START...(040302)
Subj: B&C starter
From: Porter Houston <email@example.com>
You had said you installed a B&C starter on your Swift. Do you like
it? Also, Even though it is STC'd for an 0-300A, do I need a field approval
to install it? Also, are you familiar with an oil filter adapter by FM
enterprises the GO-300. It is also STC'd for the engine but not the airframe.
I went to Sun n Fun last week. Had a great time but had to leave early
because of weather. If I didn't leave when I did, last Tuesday, I'd still
be there. How you doing these days. Do you fly much. Say hi to Hoover.
I'm planning to fly to Oshkosh this year for the first time. Weather permitting
of course. Porter
Yes, I have the B&C starter. I love it. It is lighter and cranks the
engine faster. I would not advise installing at at other than overhaul,
because the old pivot needs to be cut off, for which the case should be
split. It might be possible to cut it off with the engine assembled, but
the chances of getting steel shavings into the engine are such that I
wouldn't want to try it. The STC is "SE" -- the "E"
being for engine, so the airframe doesn't matter, so you do not need a
field approval. Last week I did a 337 for a Brackett air filter on a 210
Swift. That STC is SA71GL. It is STC'ed for the IO-360 engine but not
the Swift airframe, so I had to get a field approval, which was no problem.
Some aftermarket starters are PMA, like for the 210 or many Lycomings,
in which case you only need a log entry, no 337 necessary. I'm not familiar
with that particular oil filter adaptor, but I recently did one for a
C-85 and there was a statement in the STC saying a field approval was
no longer necessary for installing in different airframes. When you come
to Oshkosh you should come by here. We are only a little over 200 NM west,
and we have a great fly-in the weekend before. -- Jim
SO THAT'S WERE THAT OIL LEAK IS COMING FROM...(070102)
Subj: generator oil seal
From: Marvin Homsley <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Jim, a couple of newsletters ago you mentioned that the generator drive
on a 145 Cont. had to have an "0" ring or it would leak oil.
Well I have that very problem. It is not a gushing leak but just enough
to be annoying. After every flight I can wipe a few drops of oil off the
bottom of my generator. If I let it go for a few hours it blows back on
the firewall and gets everything oily. I have access to a local FBO and
their microfiche but there is nothing showing any "0" ring.
Can you tell me or fax a picture showing just where it should be located.
My generator is freshly rebuilt and I do not remember seeing that seal
when I installed it. Fax number is 419 715-3640 or email@example.com
It is item #13 in figure 16. of the O-300 parts manual. Also, it is #14
of figure 18. in the C-75, 85, 90 and O-200 parts manual. -- Monty
SKY TEC HIGH TORQUE TROUBLE... (NOV 03)
From: Larry Meyers <MeyersFlyby@aol.com>
Subject: Starter problems
I recently purchase NC2412B from Fred Lipscomb. After I purchase the plane
I had the engine overhauled to "0" time. Fred had installed
a Sky Tec high torque starter on the plane just before I purchase it.
After the overhaul we flew it for and hour and it developed a high pitch
noise in the starter adapter. My mechanic located a used one and installed
it. After another hour and a half the adapter started slipping. I then
purchased a rebuilt adapter from Niagara Air Parts and had it installed.
In reading all the information that came with the new rebuilt starter
adapter, it warned against using the high torque starter because the starter
adapter has to turn the starter motor backwards 3 turns to unwind the
spring that is inside the adapter. It said you need to be able to turn
the starter backwards by hand to keep from damaging the adapter. The Sky
Tec starter say right on it that it will work on 0300D engine. This is
not true. I purchased and installed a rebuilt starter motor. I have 18
hours on the engine with no problems. Thought you might want to pass this
along to others so they won't suffer the problems and cost that I went
through. I know that you once owned NC2412B for a while in the early 80's.
I have went through 15 hours of dual instruction and really love to fly
her. She is a great little bird. She is now based in Sky Point Estates,
Greers Ferry, Arkansas. -- Larry Meyers